Legislative Joint Auditing – December 11, 2009
Posted on December 11th, 2009
Date & Time: Tuesday, December 11, 2009 at 10:00 AM
Location: Room 171, State Capitol
Committee Information: Members on Committee
Agenda
The duties of the Legislative Joint Auditing Committee shall be to provide for the auditing of each department, institution, board, commission, office, and agency of the state government for the purpose of furnishing the General Assembly with information vital to the discharge of its constitutional duties. (A.C.A. 10-3-407)
All reports mentioned in this post can be found here.
9:10 am – Meeting called to order by Rep. Johnny Hoyt. Minutes of November 12, 2009 adopted.
9:11 am – Rep. Monty Betts presented the Executive Committee Report which was adopted without question or comment.
9:12 am – Rep. Mike Patterson presented the report from the Committee on Counties and Municipalities. The report was adopted without question or comment.
9:16 am – Rep. Eddie Cheatham presented the report from the Committee on Education Institutions.
9:17 am – I can hear Christmas carols in the committee room coming from the Capitol Rotunda. Sounds beautiful. Children’s voices fill the capitol this time of year. I love it, this place comes alive like no other time.
9:18 am – Report by Rep. Cheatham adopted without questions or comments.
9:20 am – Rep. Jim House presented the report from the Committee on State Agencies. This report was adopted without question or comment.
9:22 am – Gail Stone, Executive Director of the Arkansas Public Employees Retirement System is presenting a report regarding instances in which county officials have retired and returned to work for the county.
9:24 am – So far there are seven county officials who have refused to return the questionaires and have hired an attorney.
9:26 am – In the report the following quote, “Despite some of the sensationalist media coverage to the contrary, we are happy to report that the number of elected officials that failed to properly vacated office prior to recieving APERS benefits is quite small” Yeah, that right there is an internal investigation conducted without bias.
9:30 am – Senator Bobby Glover made the point that with the drop, salary, and retirement combined, some of these guys were not double dipping, the were TRIPLE DIPPING.
9:31 am – When asked what laws should be put in place to prevent this in the future, APERS Executive Director responded that nothing needs to be done.
9:33 am – Rep. Gaskill asked if not for the courage of Rep. Kerr would this have goine on forever? APERS Executive Director confirmed that it probably would have just gone on and on.
9:36 am – Sen. Farris said that somebody took a law to do a good thing (allow the state to hire retirees for positions that are hard to fill) and snuck around the back door to find a way to abuse the system.
9:38 am – This is especially true of elected officials. If an elected official “retires” or otherwise “terminates” their employment, it is obvious to anyone that they have to resign and leave office.
9:41 am – Rep. John Burris is asking questions that are being avoided and unresponsively answered by the APERS Executive Director. Anytime you see this kind of obstruction, you can bet that more intensive investigation and diligence to get to the bottom of the problem is necessary. George Hopkins of the Arkansas Teacher Retirement system gave the honest and unobstructive first reaction to this. His position WAS one that was intent on providing the ethical resolution of this. He has since pullled back from that position. Gail Stone, Executive Director of APERS appears to be dragging out and obstructing this legislative investigation.
9:48 am – Ms. Stone initially claimed that no new laws were necessary, but after a line of questioning from both Rep. Burris and Sen. Jeffress it became clear that APERS did not consider particularly bad abuses to be “not illegal”. Doesn’t that point to a need for legislation?
9:52 am – Sen. Jeffress is asking if it would be appropriate to have an APERS perform a survey of all “Agency Heads and 99s”. He stated that in the form of a motion. There is currently wordsmithing going on. Ms. Stone said that she would comply “as much as I am allowed” then quickly said she misstated that and agreed to fully comply. What does that mean? “As much as I am allowed” by whom? Who would not be allowing her to comply.
9:57 am – Discussion is currently on the motion to perform the review. Rep. English asked that the motion to be amended to go back 3 years instead of one year for the investigation.
10:02 am – It is funny to me that legislators who never have concern for cost to taxpayers suddenly have a concern for cost when they want to use the argument to obstruct an investigation. Jim House is saying that he thinks this would be to costly too expand the investigation.
10:05 am – Motion by Rep. English to amend to the motion to go back 3 years instead of 1 year passed.
10:06 am – The point was made that even when this investigation is made we would not have names to connect to the violation due to confidentiality. That right there would be a good place to create some sunshine in government. This is an area that needs some openness and accountability.
10:08 am – Sen. Jeffress is asking that audit and APERS verify those who retired if they gave up the emollents of office (cell phone, car, etc.) during the waiting period before they came back to work.
10:11 am – The motion passed. A role call was made. Rep. Cheatham made the motion to roll call to kill the motion to help obsure and hide the facts and prevent this investigation. Rep. Allen Maxwell seconded the motion. Mark it down folks. This is the tricks used to prevent openness and accountablity in government. Are you tired of this kind of government?
10:17 am – Rep. Hoyt decided to use the authority of the chair to place that request for information without a vote of the committee. I am glad that Rep. Hoyt did that, but I find it sad that he had to do it that way. Some members don’t know how big a favor Rep. Hoyt did for them.
10:24 am – Sen. Kim Hendren is making the point the shroud of secrecy is NOT good government.
10:28 am – Sen. Farris asked Gail Stone if she was concerned enough about this situation when if first come up to ask about the appropriateness of it. She responded, “Not in an official capacity.” Sen Farris followed up and asked, why she maded that inquiry. She seemed very stressed, slowly answered … “it seemed they were winking at the law.”
10:37 am – This whole meeting I have been wondering why Gail Stone, Executive Director of APERS, seemed to be obstructing this legislative inquiry with guarded answers. Well, there is more to the story, perhaps she is not the “bad guy”. Apparently the Chairman of the Board of Directors for APERS is currently under investigation for this very thing. This person is Larry Fraetsi (spelling?) currently the Jefferson Co. Collector. So a person who is Ms. Stone’s boss has a direct conflicting interest in the situation. It seems a resignation is in order. I now feel sorry for Ms. Stone. She is in a tough position.
10:43 am – David Webb is presenting the report for the Department of Education Grants. Report can be found here Sen. Jeffress asked that the report be provided to the Education Committees. Rep. Nix asked how specific the limitation on the usage of these grants. Apparently those which are ARRA (Stimulus) Grants are very restrictive. Rep. English is asking about how the Title I Grants work, a response will be provided to her in a personal meeting.
10:49 am – Kim Williams is providing the Audit Report for Lonoke County. This report can be found here
10:57 am – Meeting adjourned.
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